What are you hearing at the airports? Let us know in this open thread. Moderation is off! Update: Moderation is back on, 3 hours later.
60 Responses to Open Thread: What are you Seeing at the Airports?
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Wisconsin seems to be running into mild resistance from airport officals https://qik.com/libertyontour
What I’m reading is that the sheeple are opting in instead of out. It’s awful apparent that people are opting for the loss of dignity and possible radiation over a delay in their travel plans, One can only hope that things change as the day goes on, otherwise it seems like we’ve really handed the reigns over to the TSA and said to the government that we are well trained dogs, and that we’ll roll over for a biscuit anytime they ask us to.
I regrettably agree.
Perhaps the news is compromised. Also, if nobody is flying, of course the airports will be empty. Some clarification is required.
Media reports and a post on the TSA blog seem to indicate it is pretty much business as usual. This is going down as I expected it would. I suspect the TSA, without telling anyone, has backed off on the number of scanners in operation (to remove the opportunity to opt out) and has also dialed back the intensity of the pat-downs (with people reporting that TSO’s are using the back of their hands on sensitive areas). The goal is to turn the media story from “public outrage” to “what’s the big deal?”. After the holiday rush, when the media returns to more pressing matters like the upcoming royal wedding, things will quietly return back to the new normal. It’s really quite brilliant on the TSA’s part.
The back of the hands have always been used for ‘private areas’ of the body.
I don’t care if you touch my private parts with the back of your hands or not, it’s still molestation!
Sheeple..This is what happens when we let the government control our schools & colleges.
My name is Hagen Gilbert,I organized the LA branch of WeWontFly with Nick Hankoff (he got tons of television interviews this morning!)
I just got back from handing out fliers https://www.scribd.com/doc/43687970/Opt-Out-Day-Flier-Side-01 at LAX, with a great group of WeWontFly members. We also handed out “don’t touch my junk” stickers that one of the members had brought and they were a hit! Highly recommended, people loved them. Many were interested, many supported us, and many ignored us. Only a couple of citizens were actually rude people “Who you recruiting for?!”
The TSA agents themselves didn’t say one word to me ( we were congregated on the sidewalk outside the terminal entrances.) When I got there the police said “let us know if you need anything.” how awesome is that! (they also wanted to know how many of us there where and at what terminals) but were very cool to me. They took fliers and stickers and protected us and our right to be there this morning. So awesome, I was very proud to be American and have those rights. The same rights that are being walked all over by the TSA.
We didn’t know what to expect when we showed up. Were we gonna be kicked out, told to leave, rounded up, arrested? I felt welcome and even supported by some officers. We’re not alone in being against this. I’ve got my eyes on the news and hopefully we make a big impact today!
Thanks to all the WeWontFly LA members and all the We won’t fly members everywhere!
(These are my feelings about the event, and I think most of us there would agree, I just don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth.)
Best,
Hagen Gilbert
I feel sorry for the police officers who are getting dragged into this by the TSA. I am sure they think it is just as ridiculous as the rest of us. After-all, when they fly, they too will have to endure these violations.
I showed up at Lindbergh Field around 0830. I had my flyers and for the first 15 minutes or so had no luck giving them to anyone. No one was interested. The worst offenders were older white women, who almost invariably said they were “OK” with the new security. I was particularly despondent when I was told this by a pregnant woman. WTF.
Airport security did come up at one point and ask if I had a permit. I said I didn’t. They asked for a copy of the info and I gave it to them. They asked if I was part of a group and I said no. That was the extent of the conversation.
Eventually things got busier and people started taking the flyers, so in about an hour I was out. I was glad the family with the developmentally challenged adult son took one. A couple of younger (late 50s) grandmothers asked for the AlterNet article because they were worried about their grandchildren.
Still a lot of people to reach, but things went all right to day, even if it was demoralizing at the start. I’ll keep it up.
Thank you so much for commenting, Hagen! I don’t necessarily believe what the media is reporting, and I certainly take what the TSA says with a very large grain of salt. It’s good to here from someone who’s been in the airports today.
I’m so afraid that the American people are going to let this go. We have such a short attention span and are so easily led…
Get with it! People WANT security!!!!!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOO slow downs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People want actual security, not porno theatre by an uncontrolled agency bent on subverting our constitutional rights. If you are afraid of getting blown up on an airplane, stay home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If people opting out slows down the line, then the TSA is even more of a failure than everyone thought.
This is stupid!! the airlines are doing it for your safety. People want to blow up america dont you see. Maybe you should read more and understand that people keep trying to put bombs on planes. Say no to the scanners? Its not a big deal, and its for your own safety. Fine then done fly, but your living in a world where you cant see the truth about whats going on in the world. If there were no such thing as terrorists, there would be no such thing as advanced security or body scanners. And if they did get rid of the scanners and someone got through security and blew up a plane you guys would be the first complaining about how the security systems wont work. Grow up, explore the world instead of living in your own little world.
Nadine, the scanners can be dangerous to pregnant women and their cancer risk is still unknown. The inventor of the scanner himself said that the machines wouldn’t have caught the shoe bomber.
We are not demanding that the scanners and “pat-downs” be replaced with nothing. We are demanding that they be replaced by methods that work, such as bomb-sniffing dogs and Israeli-style observation for anomalous travelers. These scanners *do not make us safer*. They give that illusion, but we’re giving ourselves a dose of radiation and a nude photo of ourselves for nothing.
As far as “reading more”, I’m reading everything available on the subject, and it seems you are not.
I agree with Nadine. Rather a very small dose of radiation and a nakid photo than be dead.
Actually Steph, “we” *are* demanding that the scanners and pat-downs be replaced with nothing. This website has consistently been progressing towards an “abolish the TSA” stance, moving away from the “demand effective security” original views. I agree with you rather than the authors of this site – we are at risk and deserved to be protected by a competent agency who respects our rights to privacy. Let’s change policy, not eliminate it.
The TSA is incompetent by design. It is structurally unable to cope with the threat. It is the US Army to Al-Qaeda’s Viet Cong. Time to learn some lessons before the education gets too expensive.
@nadine
What the TSA does is security theatre and reactionary.
If it is ‘security at any cost’ maybe we should have exploratory neurosurgery at the gate to make sure we are not hiding anything between our brains and our skulls. Why not? There is a non-zero risk that someone could do that. Oh, I am being ridiculous? But, but, it is in the name of safety and there is a non-zero chance someone could smuggle something that way!
So tell us, why do you hate america?
Nadine, then maybe we should submit to duct taping, especially over the mouth, and full body cavity searches. After all, it’s for your safety. Also, you’ll need to hand over all your account numbers and passwords, for TSA to access to screen for potentially suspicious activity before you board a flight.
Bend over hon, cos’ with an attitude like the one you’re expressing, the removal of rights and privacy never ends.
Ever heard of the Constitution? Try reading the 4th Amendment. “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated”. Having the gov’t take naked pictures of our bodies under our clothes is unreasonable search. Having the gov’t stick their hands into our crotches is unreasonable search. Even these methods wouldn’t have caught the “underwear bomber”, so what good are they? It’s just theater, it’s to make us think we’re safer. Not only that, the radiation from these scanners is dangerous. Grow up, explore the truth, instead of believing what the gov’t says like sheep. The gov’t is getting ready to use these same methods in other areas, so get ready, it’s the first step of the police state. Welcome to the USSA.
So when a bomb goes off in the cargo hold of a plane, what good did all the scanning of passengers accomplish?
There has not been any passengers caught with a bomb on their person, and I highly doubt there will ever be.
But a bomb in the cargo hold is much more probable. Does the TSA care so much about your safety that they inspect ALL cargo that goes on the same plane you are riding in? The answer for you is: NO.
Also, no other public conveyance is subject to people being searched. Can you imagine what is being brought on buses, trains, taxis, etc? Have you heard of any of those being attacked. I can say with the law of averages that many items are being brought on to planes that could cause harm, but have you heard of any occurrences of violence on the huge amounts of flights that take place every day in the USA.
We are being afraid of something that is so small of a chance of happening, that it could be almost non-existance. You have more chance of being killed in a car accident from a distracted driver (cellphone usage, eating, fiddling with iPod, etc). So for my safety when driving are you one of those that are distracted? I demand that you be stripped of anything before you get in your car and drive. You know the drill, “Anything for my safety”. Right?
I have traveled extensively over three continents and have seen more of the world than you would expect. Explain to me why we didn’t have this sort of nonsense in the 70s and 80s when planes would be hijacked and/or blown up?
In the Spring of 1985 I was actually on an AlItalia flight that had a bomb in a briefcase two rows from where I sat. Alert passengers noticed it, despite the plane being cleaned before we ever got to it. We all had to be checked again, but no one freaked out and suggested we should be sexually assaulted in a patdown. Ever since then, I scan the empty rows as I board my plane.
Last year, when I went through Denver, their puffer machines were set off in the corner. I had previously been through them and thought they were a waste of money and didn’t work. The three TSA officials I asked about why they didn’t use them said they didn’t work as they should and were constantly broken.
People have been trying to put bombs on planes since planes were invented. Nothing is going to stop a determined individual.
I would suggest that you start reading more on the topic. The health issues of full body scanners are not known. The full body scanners would not have stopped the underwear bomber. The full body scanners have been pushed since Bush was in office, but he shelved them because even he didn’t think they would work.
If you think these invasive patdowns and scanners are the last of your invasion of privacy, you’re kidding yourself. If you let them pass now, you’ll see them everywhere the government determines security theater should be displayed.
I’ve been following the story since 2007. I think you need to do a lot more reading up on the situation because you do not have a well informed opinion on the matter. Just because you’re told it’s for your own good, doesn’t mean it really is.
Good reports Steph and Hagen!
Great reports Steph and Hagen!
Based on what people are saying on Twitter, lines are very short — because the airports are quiet, and many aren’t using the scanners. Of course the TSA and its supporters will try to spin this as a lack of support for opt-out day. It seems to me, though, that it’s a reflection of the movement’s success.
https://iwilloptout.org/2010/11/24/reports-from-the-front-lines-on-national-opt-out-day/ has a selection of tweets (and links back to this thread
)
Keep in mind to get the full picture we will have to see if ridership on the airlines was up, stable, or down this year. My hunch is it is down. People are double #Opting-Out and #wontfly. Check out the latest poll on this: https://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.cfm?ID=1925
This whole uprising is ridiculous. I’ve done both the scanner and the patdown, and neither was more than a few seconds of my time, and no more intrusive than a patdown at a concert. You’ve attempted to get the media play, and get people riled up over this, but the fact is, people are going do whatever is needed, in order to fly safely. If YOU don’t want the security procedures used on you, then I have a simple solution: DON’T FLY.
Did you happen to notice the name of the website when you suggested don’t fly? What a phenomenal idea.
The scanners and the enhanced pat downs are unreasonable searches, and done without probably cause. I happen to like the 4th amendment.
Chess, are you stupid? The website is called We Won’t Fly. So, your solution wasn’t really all that original. Now go worship at the alter of the state.
Enjoy your anal probing in order to fly safely, citizen.
The scanners do not work for bomb detection. Don’t you get it? They don’t do what they are supposed to! Why is it that other nations can simply say, no, like Italy who stated they’re too expensive, useless, hurt tourism and lastly violate a persons right not to be molested….and they nixed the scanners. Why is it so hard in America to make a reasoned decision or does the govt enjoy forcing you to behave like cattle.
People have been emasculated in America…they stand for nothing. A few generations back people fought for freedom and you’re giving up yours. You deserve the govt you get. Maybe they can find your spine in the backscatter scan.
I had the exact thought as an earlier poster — if I were the TSA, I’d, without announcing it, back off this holiday on the “enhanced” pat downs and herding people into the naked photo booth for irradiation. So as to convince the public that travels only once or twice a year that it’s all overblown. Now, if I can figure that so can the supposed targets of the TSA.
I will stop flying in March when my current commitments are fulfilled. Then, if we can’twhen trains, buses, sporting events, schools and so on are installing these invasive methods, I will give up my “privelege” to attend those too.
As the TSA can freely circumvent the pornography and sexual assault laws we regular citizens have to follow, and as it can easily shred the Bill of Rights for those who have made contract with airlines, I believe they are impressive enough to have their acronym used as a verb in certain situations. For instance, the next time you’re groped on a crowded subway, shout “I’ve been TSA’d!” (Totally Sexually Assaulted.)
I also think the TSA should offer incoming passengers a menu of TSA services. For instance, you can choose a trip to the impressively modern naked photo booth where you and yours will be doused with radiation while holding your hands up so the man/woman behind the curtain has an unobstructed view of those places few can glimpse. Or, if you prefer more exotic fare, you can choose the “Pistole Penis Push” with a side of “Scrotum Squeeze” served up by a TSA stranger. The menu might include the “Napolitano Nipple Nudge”, which pairs nicely with a free Derrier Lift.
OK, yes, I’m bitter. Bitter that Americans are so willing to forfeit their constitutional rights for the lie of “safety.” We are sheeple. It’s downright embarassing how unwilling we are to defend ourselves from our own government in favor of a unattainable “safety” from terrorism.
I could be on your plane. And am highly motivated to do anything necessary to protect you and me and anyone else. The TSA is not making you any safer than you were on September 10, 2010. Think about it. You could easily find a work around to anything they can do. That what happens. Please also think about what you’ve given away by supporting this. Think about how other countries do it well. The TSA has not stopped a single potential attack by a terrorist while spending billions of dollars and trampling your rights.
Thank you for not being on my plane. I feel that you would not helpfull in case of a need.
Actually, the general feedback from the We Won’t Fly group is that passengers and NOT TSOs have been thwarting terrorism. And many of us believe that diligent passengers can take the place of full body radiation.
mmmmmm, have you got an actual citation to back up your statement “Airline sales hit a record high for this day” or did you just make that up to be antagonistic?
Please referr to USgov.com airline stats. I am starting to believe that this site is funded through Fox News.
USgov.com is a spam website.
I did not go inside the airport, but I was outside with others here in Kansas City at KCI. There was a mixed response from passengers and state employees alike. Some TSA agents were confrontational making odd claims and others were decent and nice. I was as friendly as possible. Some who support these invasive measures were aggressive and confrontational even going as far as to throw objects at protesters. Some asked questions and wanted to learn more. There was a good deal of media there which I was attempting to avoid. Overall I would say what I saw was somewhat successful and I am glad I went and handed out literature to people.
Anybody commenting so far fly often? Once yearly? Once weekly? From where to where? Just curious.
I fly at least several times per year.
Made it thru Milwaukee OK – hardly anyone flying at 10am
parking was full
did not get a chance to opt out – just walked up to the old metal detector and looked the tsa guy in the eye he waived me thru no challange
watched one womann get the pat down treatment – would not want a 10 year old girl to have to do that. Ugh
Chicago Pharr no scanners – just same old metal detectors and no pat downs
crowds
Keep up the pressure!
Are the TSOs spreading infectious diseases? Hands must be washed with soap and warm water and new gloves must be used after every inspection of a senior citizen’s diaper of a menstruating woman’s pad. Are they dirty shoes and then touching your private parts? Herpes is a lifelong disease.
Can we please, please, please stop putting out false information? A glove change should be mandatory due to the inherent grossness of reusing gloves on every traveler, not because of easily discredited claims that you’ll get herpes from a patdown – whether it is a standard one or an “enhanced patdown.”
“What Causes Herpes Infections and Outbreaks?
Herpes simplex type 1, which is transmitted through oral secretions or sores on the skin, can be spread through kissing or sharing objects such as toothbrushes or eating utensils. In general, a person can only get herpes type 2 infection during sexual contact with someone who has a genital HSV-2 infection. It is important to know that both HSV-1 and HSV-2 can be spread even if sores are not present.”
Source: https://www.webmd.com/genital-herpes/pain-management-herpes
“Viruses start to die immediately once they leave the skin of the infected person and moreover it would take a “perfect” scenario to pass to someone else with a toilet involved. The infected person would have to leave behind some sort of virus and then pretty much IMMEDIATELY a person would have to sit on the toilet with broken skin or the wet skin of their privates on the same spot…but even still the virus would already be dying. It usually could not penetrate normal skin like the skin on the back of the buttocks or thigh.”
https://en.allexperts.com/q/Venereal-Diseases-2106/Public-Restroom-1.htm
This is not the first time I’ve seen folks claim that “enhanced patdowns” will lead to a slew of sexually transmitted consequences, from disease to the laughable “virgin birth” idea (which I’m pretty certain has been discredited by reputable sources).
If we want the TSA body scan issue to get more exposure (no pun intended), then we ought to be reaching out to more people, specifically more liberals. Spreading around falsehoods and misunderstandings about basic sexual education is not going to help us achieve that goal and effect some real change.
I definitely see this as a success on the part of protest organizers. The fact that the TSA is easing up on the screening to accommodate holiday crowds means fewer people are being irradiated or groped. Even if this only lasts for a day or two, it’s an improvement. That’s not to say that the resistance should stop this weekend; the TSA will definitely return to its old tricks (and, in the process, will try to make us look like we’ve been making a fuss over nothing). However, our resistance forced them to ease up on screenings, and we’ll continue resisting until these screenings are stopped.
The Internet is a beautiful thing. They show seat maps online now. It looks like air travel is far from busy today. I looked at flights throughout the day on one of the major airlines. I must have looked at 30 flights. Without exception, there are at least a handful of empty coach seats on each flight. Not what you usually see for holiday travel. If Americans keep this up, the airlines will pressure TSA to make changes.
I book flights for a living. There is always increased activity, even since the recession/depression started, this week of people trying to get last minute flights.
Not this year. It’s been quite dead.
Do you have any numbers we can use that show the decreased activity?
My anecdote:
Went to Tampa International Airport this morning, arriving at about 11:00 a.m. to pick up my brother and SIL. Stayed at the baggage area only.
I was shocked at how dead it was. A group of four TSA men, having nothing to do with the security clearances stayed huddled together, and were nervous and tense. I overheard some of their conversation when I first entered the baggage area and it was about protesters.
My brother and SIL arrived and remarked how dead it was, especially compared to the Cleveland airport where they had departed early in the morning. In Cleveland, everyone was going through the metal detectors with the scanners visible, but inactive, whereas here in Tampa, they noticed three powered up and going as they got off the plane.
I told them that TIA already had at least one incident in the previous days and has already gotten a reputation for being hostile. Perhaps that was the difference?
They have made this commute many times over the last three years and this a. difference between the two airports and b. inactivity at TIA were remarked upon at length by them.
They’ve hit upon hard times btw and felt they couldn’t back out financially. Had they been able to, they would have. They will not fly again until this has ended. It’s also taught them to rely more on themselves for security as it has revealed a deeply flawed system. They will be scrutinizing their fellow passengers in the future and just more aware of their surroundings in general.
I refuse to fly. This country has become a fascist regime. How dare they treat us like criminals and terrorists waiting to be placed into a federal prison. How disgusting…..my family and I will wait and take alternate transportation. However, if the sheep in this country don’t protest, they will be using this type of garbage at buses, trains and who knows where.
From news reports and trip reports among friends, family and internet sources, it seems that the WBI machines are being used far less, if not roped off entirely.
It’s kind of hard to opt out, after all, if the machines aren’t running. More manipulation of the facts by the TSA, and much of the media is missing it entirely. It’s rather disingenuous of the TSA blogger to report as he is without acknowledging the decreased operation, or without giving the number of scans on a typical day. Nothing like a little confirmation bias from Blogger Bob to liven up the T-Day festivities.
Let’s not believe the lying corporate media. My husband flew in from Orlando tonight. He was expecting the opportunity to be “bumped” today because of overbooking on this traditional busy day. He knows nothing about this action today. I got an email while he was waiting for flight: I got this email while he was waiting for flight:
The airport is dead. No one is here.
You can still buy a cheap ticket for my flight home.
(i.e. there were actually empty seats on the flight-a very rare occurrence on a normal day, let alone a pre-holiday) Thank you to everyone.
The media is lying and spinning it as though there was no protest because they couldn’t find protestors. That’s the whole point. There is definitely a powerful force in media and govt that wants these scanners in. And always we are being shown who the govt/media works for…and it’s not the people.
We weren’t welcomed with open arms at the JFK Airport in New York City. We were asked to leave the premises and a police van showed up from the Port Authority Police Emergency Service Unit. We moved to the Air Train which connects the subway and railways to the airport. An Air Train employee said we were not allowed to take photographs. I wrote down his name and told him that that wasn’t true and he didn’t have the authority to forbid us from taking pictures. He asked me for my name and I didn’t give it to him. He was just trying to intimidate me. I didn’t laugh at him but I felt like it. He was a pathetic individual. He spent the next 5 or 10 minutes glaring at me. We also met a lot of nice people. One TSA agent said she wasn’t aware of any children being patted down. She didn’t even know that TSA policy allowed the enhanced pat-down for ages 13 and up. She said she usually had to pat down “old ladies.” That made me very sad because it is the disabled and elderly and cancer patients who cannot get through security because of their ailments, i.e. wheelchairs, prosthetics, metal joints, etc. I am disturbed that our most vulnerable people are the ones most affected by the TSA’s policies.
Report from SFO protest today: I got there about 9 am and met up with the We Won’t Fly local meetup organizer. There were only 4 of us there. Someone connected with we won’t fly or fly with dignity got us a permit. The airport rep was really great and told us the rules and where we could stand. Overall SFO was very accommodating. The airport didn’t seem busy at all as far as travelers. I had to leave mid-day when I returned around 2 pm – there were just 3 of us. Apparently more came around noon, but went home shortly after. The cops were completely lowkey and even came by to get a flyer and chat with us. There were a lot of police there – not sure if that was due to the holiday or the planned protest. Naturally I’m disappointed more non-flyers did not come out, but glad I did. A few is better than none. https://yfrog.com/3zja2xj
There are terrorists in our airports, and they are uniformed, and they are called TSA.
The media spin is because there were no protestors, there was no protest. The light lines on a heavy travel day is a sign that the protest is working. I will opt out forever until the scanners are gone. They do not detect bombs and that’s what they were for…the underwear bomber. He would have gone through.
Sad to say, but all it will take is 1 event to happen, where someone gets through security and causes a problem on plane for people to realize that molestation and radiation have not made us any safer. Maybe then the people who say they feel safer and do not mind the radiation or molestations will begin to demand more respect.
I am seriously thinking of wearing a sports cup, to protect my junk from TSA molestation. If they touch my private parts and feel a hard cup I wonder what they would do. When asked what it is, I will simply say it is my protection, safe flying cup. As far as I know there is no law or regulation saying that men cannot wear a cup?
I’m surprised I have not seen someone start to market sports cups as travel protections for safe travel. Pretty soon we should all just wear chastity belts to protect our junk.
If asked to remove it, I will strip down and show the “full monty” to satisfy their pervert eyes.
Where are the streakers when you really want them! Hey streakers, get over to the airports and show your stuff!