I am so impressed with how Jim Babb (We Won’t Fly co-founder) stood his ground in the face of threats from petty thugs. Notice how Jim was unshaken by a Philly cop’s inappropriate threat. Notice where the TSA guy backed down when Jim refused to stop filming. Anybody aware of any countermeasures to the cop’s strobe flashlight?
28 Responses to Jim Babb Stands up to TSA, Cop on We Won’t Fly Day
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Strobe light? Was he hoping you had epilepsy?
How about attaching a mirror to the camera?
What a brilliant idea, thank you.
Wow things are really bad in the US! I have been flying in Canada lately and encountered much less of a security theater mess but I suspect we’re just a year or so behind the US. Things will change at some point. Leaving Victoria BC last week I saw a porno scanner almost ready to be activated. Our security people seem quite polite and friendly however. One day in Vancouver while leaving by Pacific Coach Lines at the main terminal there was a “security table” with two yellow jacketed private security employees searching bags. I have no idea why. When I took a photo they both demaned that I delete it. Stupidly I complied, but have written the station management and the local newspaper asking about who they are, etc.
In the video above the first cop makes a thinly veiled threat. I really like the immediate “am I being detained, amd I free to leave” question. That sort of establishes things right at the beginning. Good for everyone to remember.
The last cop standing in the road with his strobe has already lost control of his professionalism. He’s just acting like a schoolyard spoiled bully who got caught at something. If they can’t handle public scrutiny and observation they should get another job.
Love the website!
i think its hilarious, the look on the TSA lady’s face, when the first cop walked away… hehehe
Of course, it failed to occur to “Officer Disco Strobe” that he might be endangering drivers and passengers of vehicles who were driving around him as he played with his disco light (distracting them, triggering an epileptic attack, etc.). Any way to enhance the picture and get his badge number? There must be laws against distracting drivers like that and he should be reported.
If they don’t give consent to be filmed and distributed, can’t they now take legal action against you for this?
In Pennsylvania, you need consent from all parties to record a conversation, but this does not apply when there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, as would presumably be the case out in the middle of the airport.
https://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/pennsylvania/pennsylvania-recording-law
People do have rights to their persona, so you couldn’t (say) use a cop’s image on a T-shirt you were selling without their consent. But that’s about profiting from their image and not about using it.
1 – The cops were in a public place. Do the news organizations get permission from everyone they film in public places?
2 – Cops are public employees. They chose to be accountable to the public (their employers) when they took the job.
3 – The government has asserted that their cameras filming you and I in public places do not constitute a breach of privacy.
4 – Wal mart (and others) has cameras viewing not only their parking lots, but the public streets adjacent to them with no notice of such viewable.
The thugs just can’t stand it when people don’t cower in fear.
From the link:
The law does not cover oral communications when the speakers do not have an “expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation.” See 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5702 (link is to the entire code, choose Title 18, Part II, Article F, Chapter 57, Subchapter A, and then the specific provision). Therefore, you may be able to record in-person conversations occurring in a public place without consent. However, you should always get the consent of all parties before recording any conversation that common sense tells you is private.
It’s amazing to me how the TSA officers don’t even know their own department’s rules. I mean, come on! If you are going to impose all these rules on people you should at least know what they are – and aren’t. It’s disgusting.
Sandra recently posted..THE KINGS SPEECH
That’s when you break out “Stayin’ Alive” on the mp3 with speakers and start dancing to it. Makes him look real stupid while you have some fun.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jim Grisanzio and others. Jim Grisanzio said: RT @WeWontFly: Now: Jim Babb Stands up to TSA, Cop on We Won't Fly Day https://bit.ly/eey8cj #wontfly #tsa #fb [...]
I don’t know if it would be effective against disco-strobing a camera lens, but there are filters that can block part of the visible-light spectrum – they’re commonly used when a camera is mounted in an area that’s targeted by “dazzlers” (people who shine cheap laser pointers into the cameras in order to overload the camera’s CCDs – believe it or not, it’s a surprisingly effective technique).
Don’t say too much about laser pointers disabling security cameras. Here’s what will happen: laser pointers will become highly illegal to everyone except for law enforecement and the TSA. They’ll use it to disable the phone cameras of anyone trying to hold them accountable.
This just makes me so mad!
That cop standing with that blinding strobe light. What is this thuggery all about? GOOD FOR YOU JIM FOR LITERALLY STANDING FIRM!
My questions:
A) Why are they all so defensive, afraid of being on camera?
B) What law trumps government transparency?
Here is an FBI document posted to the ACLU’s website asking the police to crack down on protestors. The act of photographing the police is referred to as an “intimidation tactic” in this document. Might this explain something?
https://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/16960prs20031123.html
https://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-slams-classified-fbi-memorandum-directing-law-enforcement-engage-protest-supp
I want to share an idea with those of you who NEED to fly like I do. Here’s the idea. Charter aircraft companies will provide charters of reasonably fast twin-prop aircraft for as low as $495 to $600 per engine hour. It is still a little steep for most of us. A 4-hour flight like Denver to Dallas roundtrip would run $2000 to $4000 depending on the aircraft type, although a two-hour flight say from Dallas to Little Rock is a little better at around $1000 to $2000 roundtrip. But it would get MUCH more affordable IF FOUR OR MORE PEOPLE share the flight. What I’m getting at is it would be pretty affordable if we got organized as a group called MYCHARTER.ORG or some such name, essentially as a private group of charter passengers with an initial membership fee of say $150. The way it would work is the group would set up scheduled charters with these charter aircraft companies along the lines of: Denver to Dallas, and Dallas to Denver, on Monday and Thursday once a month initially and eventually once a week. Then with favorable connecting times on the very same days you’d have Dallas to Atlanta and Atlanta back to Dallas, and the same with say Atlanta to New York and New York back to Atlanta. These cities are mentioned in the way of an example but you get the idea. Your city could be included if you and a few more in your city joined the group. With a regular schedule between major cities, you’d end up with more people joining the group and booking the charter, more charters being scheduled, and all of a sudden you are talking a very affordable way to fly. The charter companies would probably agree to early cancellation clauses if participation on a particular flight is too low so that no one ends up carrying an expensive charter by him or herself. It would take a few weeks to organize and a few months to build up an appropriate membership level, but it could be done. My interest is primarilly as a beneficiary and also because it would have the side benefit of getting publicity from the major news media who are already questioning TSA’s violation of our civil rights. And then Katy bar the door. Then fliers across the country would be checking out how to become a member of the private charter organization, and the airlines and airports would realize they are about to lose even more passengers than they already have. It would help put pressure on the Congress and Senate to rein in TSA. As big sis Janet said herself, “you don’t have to fly if you don’t like the TSA rules” or something along that line, I can’t remember her exact words. Well, until TSA is reined in, we don’t have to fly commercially. We can fly privately and with dignity. Anyway who wants the TSA theatre if they think it makes us safer can still fly commercially. This option is for the rest of us. Any of your feedback would be appreciated.
You’d still have to fly from an airport. Believe me, the TSA would be there with a porno scanner the moment this became a regular thing.
I like your idea very much and was pondering a similar idea a few days ago. I do not fly very often, but when I do it is primarily up and down the west coast, along very popular flight segments.
I did a little searching to try to find a website at which I could join with other passengers making the same trip to charter a private flight, but no such luck. A website such as this, where members who fly regular could easily coordinate, with an option for non-members as well, would be awesome.
If Janet Thinks it’s such a Good idea then she would mind going through the Same Porno” Measures we have to go through.. Oh Wait… She’s been Exempted the the Resident Marxist in the WH!
Great Idea, I’ve been saying the same thing to my spouse. I’m in and I believe it we all remain flexible then there won’t be any “Scheduled” flight times and if we need to we can do it from Private airports and hire private Security and if the TSA shows up they will be turned out on their ear.
Let the Jackbooted Blue Shirts Get a foothold and they will shove a want up your butt…. wait they do that now. What a Flipping mess we’re in. We Let the damn Terrorists win.
Join the Boycott https://www.meetup.com/National-Boycott-of-Airline-Travel-2011/
Ask your local city and State government to pass resolutions against the police-empowering, free speech squelching, and deliberately misnamed Patriot Act: https://www.reformthepatriotact.org/resolutions.html
Ask your State government to Nullify Now: https://www.nullifynow.com
Shortly after Department of Homeland Security was established, I was unemployed and searching for work at the Dep’t of Lablr. They told me about a training course that would lead to a job as an airport security agent. I declined, and have gone on to become an educator. After reading this blog for the past few months, I have come to be VERY thankful to have made that choice. I am not a bully, and by nature I am someone who sticks up for the victims of bullying. So I would not have done well at the TSA.
What blows me away is at about 1:14, when the cop (still Officer Franklin?) is saying ‘I don’t want you to take my picture. I’ll take that camera…’ etc.
Does anyone else find this ironic? How many law abiding citizens have forcibly had even more revealing pictures taken since TSA started using these scanners? It’s all right to do so to law abiding civilians but it’s not okay to do so to a public official?
Actually I can understand why they were upset. It was obvious that Jim was there to film them just to catch them doing something wrong. I’m sure it made them feel uncomfortable and like they were under inappropriate scrutiny. That woman at the beginning, her whole attitude when the cop let Jim continue was like ‘What the hell?’.
Indeed, what the hell? I suppose you could look at the situation as….the people filming the TSA employees doing their job, are doing something similar to TSA’s supposed ‘goal’. Keeping the people safe from those who would harm them. Perhaps that could be pointed out to them when they get snippy about it; I’m sure they would smile and nod and agree to being filmed just in case they do something wrong, once they realize the reasons behind it. Just like they expect us to do.
Someone on another blog posted that the thing to do is to shame violating police and TSA officers publicly, by
a) Obtaining their names
b) writing down their badge numbers
c) Posting both to the internet, with a detailed description and film footage, if available, of what they did.
Not a bad idea.
Public employees have no reasonable expectation of privacy in performance of their public duties. The don’t have to grant consent to being filmed or photographed anymore than you or I do. It’s amazing to me how little most people know about the law.
I couldn’t stop laughing at how ridiculous “disco strobe cop” was acting.
What a great representation of our law enforcement and protection.
Truly a joke.
TSA + Police = Better America?
Maybe in the funnies section of the Sunday paper…
A technical product question…
Are there video and still-image cameras that not only record, but transmit the image data simultaneously via WiFi or other methods to networks or servers? That would eliminate authorities confiscating a camera and having it returned with all the data mysteriously erased.
Also during Jim’s Opt-Out day monitoring, he could have recorded the scene and before he even found his car, George could have posted the video, or stored it in multiple places.
This very issue came up with a civil rights veterans group here in PA who is drafting legislation to further protect people when recording during traffic stops.
For smartphones, this is a tool that fits the bill: https://qik.com/. It would be great if lots of people used it this kind of thing.